2 Degrees Out West
Listen in as we examine the story behind some of the most pressing conservation issues facing the West.
2 Degrees Out West is a podcast for advocates and decision makers who want to fight climate change and its impacts across the West.
On 2° out west we talk with climate experts and advocates to bring you stories, experiences, and insights from their work in the places we call home.
We find, legislators, researchers, organizers, conservation advocates, and more to ask about what we can do to help protect the West’s land, air, and water – and, yes, to fight the climate crisis and hold global heating to within 2 degrees Celsius.
2 Degrees Out West
Why Water Meters Matter: Water Conservation with the White Mountain Apache Tribe
As climate change causes the West to become hotter and drier, communities are working hard to save water and stretch limited supplies. But in order to save water, we’ve got to know how much we’re using in the first place. The White Mountain Apache Tribe in Arizona is working to do just that.
Join Kim Mitchell as she talks with Cheryl Pailzote and Lydo Harvey about a project that the Tribe is undertaking in partnership with WRA to save water in the West.
The Tribe received a new grant to install hundreds of water meters on the Fort Apache Reservation to conserve water and find and fix leaks faster. “This will help us to track water use and inform the people of when water conservation is needed,” said Pailzote.
This podcast is translated into Apache by Jimmy Brownfeather.
2 Degrees Out West is a podcast from Western Resource Advocates, an environmental conservation organization that's focused on the Interior West. WRA works across seven states to protect our climate, land, air, and water. WRA protects and advocates for Arizona, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada, Montana, and Wyoming.
2 Degrees out West is a podcast for advocates and decision makers who want to fight climate change and its impacts across the West.
On 2 Degrees Out West we talk with climate experts and advocates to bring you stories, experiences, and insights from their work in the places we call home.
It is Hosted by Dave Papineau
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[00:00:00] Jimmy Brownfeather: Hello, my name is Jimmy Brownfetter and this is Two Degrees Out West.
[00:00:06] Jimmy Brownfeather: Welcome to Two Degrees Out West, a podcast for advocates and decision makers who want to fight climate change and its impacts across the West.
[00:00:15] Dave Papineau (Host): On Two Degrees Out West, we talk with climate experts and advocates to bring you stories, experiences, and insights from their work in the places we call home. I'm your host, Dave Papineau. Before we get started with today's show, a few housekeeping notes. If you're a frequent listener, you might not recognize my voice, and that's because I'm new to WRA.
[00:00:35] Dave Papineau (Host): My name is Dave Papineau, and I'm the new multimedia specialist, as well as the host for Two Degrees Out West. When I'm not hosting this podcast or running WRA's social channels, you can find me skiing, biking, or hiking around my home state of Colorado. I'm thrilled to be a part of WRA's team and look forward to bringing you the stories and voices of the Western fight against climate change.
[00:00:55] Dave Papineau (Host): You'll hear more from me later, but for today I wanted to share a conversation [00:01:00] WRA's senior policy advisor Kim Mitchell had with Cheryl Pailzote and Lydo Harvey about initiatives that the White Mountain Apache Tribe is taking to save water. As a note, and as you've probably already heard, this podcast has been translated into Apache by Jimmy Brownfeather.
[00:01:14] Dave Papineau (Host): So, you'll hear that throughout the episode. Now, here's Policy Advisor Kim Mitchell with Cheryl Pailzote, Lydo Harvey, and Jimmy Brownfeather of the White Mountain Apache Tribe.
[00:01:32] Kim Mitchell: As climate change causes the West to become hotter and drier, communities are working hard to find ways to stretch increasingly limited water supplies. My name is Kim Mitchell, Senior Policy Advisor at Western Resource Advocates, and on this episode of Two Degrees Out West, I'll be talking with Cheryl Pilsout and Lydo Harvey about a new initiative that the White Mountain Apache Tribe in East Central AriPailzotena is undertaking in partnership with WRA to save water in the West.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Kim Mitchell: We're also joined by Jimmy Brownfeather, who will be translating today's podcast into Apache. Cheryl PalePailzoteat has worked with the tribe for 20 years and currently serves as the Water Resources Program Manager. She has extensive experience in environmental science, watershed hydrology, and water rights.
[00:02:20] Kim Mitchell: Lydo Harvey is a director of the Tribal Utility Authority, where he has worked for 14 years. He has certifications in both water treatment and water distribution. Jimmy Brownfeather is co director for the Tribal Utility Authority, where he has worked for 38 years. He's worked in every program within the utility, but currently focuses on wastewater and maintenance.
[00:02:44] Kim Mitchell: Thank you for joining me all today.
[00:02:46] Jimmy Brownfeather: Good morning. My name is Kim Mitchell. I'm a tenure policy advisor. Western Resource Advocate.[00:03:00]
[00:03:19] Kim Mitchell: I'd like to start by learning more about each of your roles. Uh, Cheryl. What drew you to work in water and what do you do as the Water Resources Program Manager?
[00:03:30] Cheryl Pailzote: Good morning. My name is Cheryl Pailzote What drew me to this field is that I like the outdoors. Growing on the reservation, I lived right by the river and have been farming with my family ever since I was a child.
[00:03:42] Cheryl Pailzote: Those were the things that really interested me and drew me to this field. So what kind of work do I do? I oversee the Water Resources Program. We manage and monitor all the water resources on the reservation. From snow to rain to stream flows and groundwater. We, and we [00:04:00] manage grants that we currently have.
[00:04:03] Cheryl Pailzote: We also provide technical assistance to other programs. That is how I started working with the Tribal Utility Program to find ways to improve our water management.
[00:04:19] Kim Mitchell: Lydo, what brought you to work in water and what do you do as a director of the Tribal Utility Authority?
[00:04:25] Lydo Harvey: For me, it just started out as a place to work, a place to have a job. As I progressed, I started to learn more about the importance of water and the service it provides for the people.
[00:04:40] Lydo Harvey: That's what really drew me to, um, you know, take on this, uh, job seriously, to take it seriously. And, you know, trying to, as a director, you know, we try to come up with better solutions and ways to provide safe drinking water at adequate pressures throughout the whole reservation for all of [00:05:00] the community members and, you know, feeding the important businesses and buildings like the hospitals and, you know, dialysis centers.
[00:05:11] Lydo Harvey: You know, it really, it gives us, it really gives us a reason to try to be the
[00:05:16] best at what
[00:05:17] Lydo Harvey: we're doing.
[00:05:18] Kim Mitchell: And Jimmy, what do you do at the Tribal Utility Authority?
[00:05:21] Jimmy Brownfeather: Uh, good morning again. Uh, I start working in 1986. I didn't apply for this job at that time. When I applied for a servicemen, meaning greasing and oil changing, changing filter for heavy equipment. Then when I applied for that job, I got interview.
[00:05:43] Jimmy Brownfeather: During the interview, I was asked if I know anything concerning water and wastewater, which I didn't even know it had no clue about it. So then as, as, as the director of utility at that time told me. He [00:06:00] asked me if I ever supervise and I did when I was working on the railroad. So he asked me if I can supervise again and I said, yeah, I can do it.
[00:06:11] Jimmy Brownfeather: So he put me on the water. We did some, uh, river crossing and that's where I picked up my, my, my experience. As time and years went by, I start working, uh, with both water and wastewater. And then, uh, again, time and years went by and I start going for, uh, certification. For, as today, I hold four certification.
[00:06:41] Jimmy Brownfeather: Two in, eight certifications. Two in water and two, uh, treatment and two for distribution and two for wastewater and treatment and collection. I'm certified in both areas and I [00:07:00] put in a lot of years and I know the, the, the utility is kind of, uh, leaning towards me for the experience and the water lines where they're at.
[00:07:12] Jimmy Brownfeather: And I was just telling Cheryl that I received numerous of, uh, letter from, uh, social Security, Amber, that I'm ready for retirement. I refused that. I would just wanna continue working. For the tribe and I'll be here for a few more years. Then I can call it quits.
[00:07:33] Kim Mitchell: Cheryl, can you tell us about the Ford Apache Indian Reservation and a little about your local water supplies? Uh,
[00:07:40] Cheryl Pailzote: yes. The Ford Apache Indian Reservation is located in East Central AriPailzotena. It covers about 1.6 million acres, and it ranges from 11,400 feet at Malt Baldy. To about 3000 ft at Salt River Canyon, the communities on the reservation are supported by surface water from [00:08:00] the North Fork White River and for a groundwater from the minor flat will feel both.
[00:08:05] Cheryl Pailzote: This includes both deep wells and shallow alluvial wells in the city cube community, Caruso and Cedar Creek community. So managing these systems during low flows in the summer and fall. With increased demand from the communities, create shortfalls for some communities during drought years.
[00:08:34] Kim Mitchell: How have you seen climate change affect the tribe's water supplies?
[00:08:38] Lydo Harvey: The, uh, White Mountain Apache Tribe has, uh, four different public water systems on the, uh, reservation. We have Honda McNary, the, uh, minor flat water system, and CarriPailzote and Sibicu. Climate change has really affected the smaller water systems more so than the others, and that would be Sibiu and [00:09:00] Cheryl Pailzote .
[00:09:00] Lydo Harvey: It's gone to the point where, um, one of our, the smaller public water systems, Sibiu, you know, had to issue a state of emergency because the water sources in the wells, um, weren't producing enough water because the demand was so high. That whole event was really, um, eye opening for us and it made us realize that we, we don't really have, um, a plan or a contingency for if our waters, if our water sources, you know, go up, they get depleted so much that we can't, we can't pump anymore.
[00:09:36] Lydo Harvey: And it's a subject that has been overlooked for a long time, and it's really important. That we bring awareness to our tribal leaders and all of us as a whole on the reservation. You know, climate change is happening, and it's in full effect. And it's starting to get more challenging to figure out, you know, how much water we can produce with the surface water [00:10:00] treatment plant.
[00:10:00] Lydo Harvey: We, uh, as soon as the surface water treatment plant was brought online in 2010, you know, we were in a drought during that time. And over the span of five years while it was on. The river level had dropped so low that, you know, we could I pumped for a certain amount of time and it was, um, you know, it was jaw dropping to see, you know, the, the river level dropped so low at its lowest under, under normal conditions, you know, we could inflate the dam to slow the river so we can pump water.
[00:10:33] Lydo Harvey: But at the time, the river was so low that when we inflated the dam, it was stopped the river entirely. Events like that shows us more and more that climate change is happening. I'm
[00:10:45] Lydo Harvey: going to speak in Karelia. Climate change is a big issue for us. We are not used to it.
[00:10:57] Kim Mitchell: Thank you for that description, Lydo. [00:11:00] The tribe recently received a grant to install around 570 water meters on the reservation. Cheryl, could you tell me more about the benefits of this project? Uh, yes. Back
[00:11:10] Cheryl Pailzote: in 2015, the tribe had started implementing a metering program. We went from having no meters to having meters installed in the community.
[00:11:19] Cheryl Pailzote: And that was a big transition for our tribal members. Since that time, the Tribal Utility Office and the Office of Environmental Services Continue to install meters, but not at the rate that we initially started with this grant. We plan to install meters in several communities with prior priority areas that are most at risk.
[00:11:41] Cheryl Pailzote: And this includes Cedar Creek. This will help us to track water use and inform the people of when water conservation is needed.
[00:11:54] Cheryl Pailzote: This will help us to track water use and inform the people [00:12:00] of when water conservation is needed.
[00:12:03] Kim Mitchell: That's interesting, Cheryl. Thank you. Turning off the tap or faucet is often the first thing that comes to mind to save water. Lydo, can you explain to us how installing these water meters will help with water conservation?
[00:12:17] Lydo Harvey: Yes, as far as water conservation goes with the utility authority, having these meters in place will help us account for, , the water loss that's happening out in our distribution systems.
[00:12:30] Lydo Harvey: We'll know which water is being used by the, Customers and where the water is leaking out from the system and we'll be able to repair the leaks that, , we can't see and conservation is a priority for us. Climate change is from full effect and everything is getting hotter. There are benefits to having meters installed, especially for homeowners.
[00:12:52] Lydo Harvey: If they have a leak inside their house, the water meter will be able to detect that and they'll be able to fix or replace whatever is [00:13:00] leaking faster in a small pinhole, it adds up over time. Conserving water is just the main aspect and priority for installing meters. If you look at the big picture, this all comes back to water conservation.
[00:13:13] Lydo Harvey: The storage tanks we have throughout the reservation are there to provide adequate water pressure. If we could conserve water, the tanks And we will stay, we'll stay full and we'll be able to maintain the amount of water we're producing and identify how much water we're losing. Once we get the issues resolved, we can save more water than we're losing.
[00:13:33] Lydo Harvey: Every public water system that , we have a meter that's tracking how much water we're producing. That data collection in there is very important, so we know how much we're producing and with these meters in place, we'll know how much is being
[00:13:47] Kim Mitchell: It's good to hear, Lydo, about the positive impact that these meters will have on water conservation. Thank you. And Cheryl, how will these water meters help you meet the community needs going [00:14:00] forward?
[00:14:00] Cheryl Pailzote: The meters will help ensure that we meet daily water demands, particularly in hotter and drier months.
[00:14:08] Kim Mitchell: Lydo, can you describe for us what people can expect with these new meters? Will water bills change at all?
[00:14:39] Lydo Harvey: Well, they can definitely expect that the meter will record the amount of water that they're using. If you leave your water on all day, whether you're watering the grass or you decide to wash your car at home, the meter is going to record how many gallons you used.
[00:14:56] Lydo Harvey: It's pretty straightforward. The more water you [00:15:00] use, the higher your water bill will be. In some cases, though, they might see that their water bill has gone down. If there are households where, there's only one or two people. Or if there's a households where you know they only use water for the toiletries and for, cooking and cleaning, people that are already conserving water, they'll probably see a significant decrease in the amount of their.
[00:15:31] Lydo Harvey: Their bill, monthly water bill. I believe that they can also expect to , that they'll be more aware of how much water that they're using. It's The whole thing will probably, in a sense, bring awareness to the people. We'll hope to have them, as they pay for their water bills, and have them, be aware of where their money goes as it's going to, the electricity that helps pay for their water and keeps their pumps [00:16:00] running and helps, the water treatment process.
[00:16:03] Lydo Harvey: The price of everything has gone up. So the money that they pay, it also helps to keep their water on. And it also keeps, helps us to keep providing
[00:16:11] their water. The money that they pay, it also helps to keep their water on.
[00:16:17] Kim Mitchell: Cheryl, you mentioned meters were previously installed on the reservation. What has been the impact of that earlier program?
[00:16:24] Cheryl Pailzote: Yes, there was meters installed in 2015 in the communities of Honda and McNary. And we found a 34 percent reduction in water use just in that community after those meters were installed.
[00:16:39] Kim Mitchell: Lydo, Have you been able to catch any leaks with these meters that were installed a few years back?
[00:16:44] Lydo Harvey: Yes, at the time, we had a plumbing program. We were getting a lot of calls and complaints from the customers whenever their, their bills were issued out and mailed to them. They were asking, why their water bill was so high.
[00:16:57] Lydo Harvey: We were explaining to them that the water [00:17:00] meters were picking up an excess use of water. They will explain to us that they haven't been using that much water. So our plumbing team will go out there and do an assessment. And we started finding service line breaks that were coming after the meter.
[00:17:17] Lydo Harvey: And we're also finding plumbing leaks inside the house. Looking over the work orders from that time, we fixed over 160 leaks in just that community. That was a lot of money and water saved. Just from that
[00:17:31] Kim Mitchell: Thank you, Lydo. Detecting these leaks will certainly help conserve and stretch local water supplies. What are you both most excited about accomplishing through this project? Cheryl?
[00:17:43] Cheryl Pailzote: For me, it's getting these meters installed. It's been a project that has been ongoing for years. I remember when we first started thinking about how many meters we needed to install and how overwhelming it is.
[00:17:56] Cheryl Pailzote: This project will help us get closer to our goal and we can use it as an [00:18:00] example for other projects. Future support for the program
[00:18:03] Kim Mitchell: Lydo. What are you most excited about with this project?
[00:18:13] Lydo Harvey: From the utility aspect, ensuring the longevity of our water sources and cutting costs all the way around. No ensuring our people's water sources are going to be there for generations to come. This is a giant leap forward in achieving this goal.
[00:18:31] Kim Mitchell: Cheryl, what can community members expect as you roll out these meters?
[00:18:35] Cheryl Pailzote: Yes, so what we would first start is getting out into the communities and informing them about The installation of the meters, what they will be expecting in their communities, and as far as the operators go, they will go and install meters in existing sites, those sites that they can easily access and be able to either [00:19:00] replace, meters that were there, or there being a system that's already in place.
[00:19:04] Cheryl Pailzote: For the meters that, for the areas that don't have meters or maybe older meters, the operators will need to go into their area to their site and dig around and look for, the water line. So those sites will, take a longer time in regards to the billing process. Back in 2015, we started with, the, providing the customer with a billing that showed.
[00:19:30] Cheryl Pailzote: Their bill, their current bill on a flat rate versus their bill. And with the metering. So they will be able to see the difference in, the rate. This will help the customer adjust to what the changes are, with the meters, and we will continue that process with all the new customers that will have meters installed.
[00:19:55] Kim Mitchell: We're really excited for the community as this important project gets started. Thank [00:20:00] you to Cheryl Pailzote, Le Harvey and Jimmy Brown Feather for joining me on two degrees out West.
[00:20:10] Dave Papineau (Host): WRA would like to thank our sponsors who make this podcast and our work to fight climate change in the west a reality. Our impact sponsor is First Bank. Our premier sponsor is Vision Ridge Partners. Our signature sponsors include Kind Design, Scarpa Footwear, Sweep, and Torch Clean Energy. That's all for today's episode of Two Degrees Out West.
[00:20:30] Dave Papineau (Host): Do you like what you heard? Bring others into the conversation. Share this show with family, friends, and group chats alike. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and X to stay up to date with the latest climate news in the West. Want to learn more about WRA's vision for a bright climate future? You can find show notes, a transcription of this episode, and more climate advocacy resources online at westernresourceadvocates. org. Thank you for [00:21:00] listening.
